GL-W Banned From British Democracy Forum

Well, the inevitable day has arrived.

GL-W has been banned from the formerly known UKIP Forum (now called the British Democracy Forum) for allegedly reporting an accusation of assault against a Party member, having been advised by the victim that this was so.

Rather than contact the alleged victim, The Forum Moderators contacted UKIP who apparently told them there was no truth in this allegation. Seems odd to us that the Moderators did not contact the 'victim' - after all he should know, shouldn't he?

It has been apparent for some 2 weeks that the Moderators were looking for an excuse (in our opinion) to eject GL-W as many of his posts had been withdrawn or 'cut', while others who said most distasteful things about GL-W and his family were allowed to keep their posts alive, and in some cases were re-iterrated by other members.

HARDLY A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD - We Think.

We have been suspicious for some time that The BD Forum has cosied up to UKIP either out of fear or favour - we genuinely do not know which. However, one thing is certain, without GL-W the BD Forum will be a less interesting place. It's now up to Junius to keep us all fascinated.

We have just one question at this point - if the alleged victim comes up with an 'incident number' for the reported offence, will the Moderators and Anthony Butcher apologise to GL-W and allow him to return?

Is the BNP Infiltration of UKIP Charge just an excuse for Nigel's Failure at next year's EU Elections in June?

Having recently read the posts made by Bob FM, Mark Croucher, Douglas Denny, Michael McGough and others on the British Democracy Forum.

Having read the statements and letters issued by UKIP's Chairman Paul Nuttall.

Having listened to comments made by Nigel Farage and some of his MEP colleagues, a pattern is developing which is becoming quite clear.

They are preparing their 'GRAND EXCUSE' for next year's failure in the EU Elections. Having clearly failed to date as leader, and having based his entire strategy on success at the EU elections (we recall Nigel making it very clear at the time of his disasterous Local Election results that it was only the EU elections which were important to UKIP) it is perhaps, at last dawning upon him and others, that UKIP will fail miserably in June. (Frankly, not something my colleagues and I particularly savour, but feel is inevitable under the current leadership team).

So, what better excuse than to 'prepare' for his failure than to accuse claimed 'anti-Farage' members of being BNP 'plants or infiltrators'. The words BNP seem to 'roll off' the tongues of these UKIP 'senior cohorts' more readily and frequently than it does from Nick Griffin himself!

The hypothesis which we are putting forward based on evidence to date, is that Nigel's Contingency Plan is to invent a BNP infiltrators plot to blame for his inevitable electoral failure. Using his 'invented plot' he intends to clear out members, to suit his aims, culminating in a 'Night of the Long Knives' eary next year. UKIP can then be portrayed as 'rising from the ashes' as a Phoenix under its saviour - Nigel Farage.

Nigel Farage, we believe that members won't be so easily duped.

Accusing honest men with integrity, like Dr Eric Edmond, of supporting the BNP (you will note his anger at the dishonesty of this claim shown on his own blog - http://ukiptruth.blogspot.com) makes the foolishness of this strategy increasingly apparent.

Of course no-one wants BNP types in their Party, but to use BNP style methods to accuse innocent members, is dishonest and dishonourable, seemingly showing the depth to which the UKIP Leadership are prepared to sink.

We hope they sink no lower. SHAME ON YOU!

PG UK Team

New Political Party Being Considered - Rumour or Fact?

It's very unlike us to quote rumour, but a number of sources are suggesting that a contingent of the British Democracy Forum members are considering setting up their own political party in view of the alledged apparent failure of UKIP to achieve its goals.

We were all aware of the 'Grass Roots' and 'Phoenix' attempts at creating a 'counter leadership group' from within the UKIP structure, but this seems to be very different. With the departure of Geoffrey Kingscott (former UKIP General Secretary)we all assumed this was an end to the infraction. However this appears not to be so.

This is only 'rumour' at present, as we understand that no formal meetings have been held. Despite this, we are aware that many members, and active 'ex-members' of UKIP, are very unhappy with the more 'extreme' and increasingly 'dictatorial' methods adopted by Nigel Farage and his 'inner circle'. Many are suggesting that he is 'deliberately destroying the anti-EU cause' for preferment in another 'Political Grouping' to be announced after the Euro Elections.

With UKIP already under fire from the Electoral Commission, Legal Actions pending, appalling election results of late, a new 'alternative Party' will just be another nail in the coffin for this potentially once 'Great Political Party movement'.

Former UKIP Party Secretary and NEC Member believes British Democracy Forum has been infilitrated by MI5

Shown below is correspondence from a former UKIP Party Secretary and current NEC member - Mr Douglas Denny - to Anthony Butcher of the British Democracy Forum stating that 'the Forum' has a 'high probability' of being infiltrated (or even controlled)by MI5.

Really Mr Denny? Well 'as a scientist' (though we thought you were an optician), perhaps you should study a little closer the posts made on the Democracy Forum. Most appear to be childish name calling and petty arguements (of late at least) or a means by which 'Leadership supporters' can criticise and hurl abuse at 'Leadership detractors' - in fact we at Political Blogspot UK have noticed you to have been one of the main culprits.

Why on earth MI5 would be remotely interested in 'infiltrating' what has become 'a children's playground for name calling' is beyond us. Perhaps Mr Denny MI5 has also infiltrated 'Slumberland Beds' - afterall 'pillow talk' can be most revealing.

With people like this in charge of UKIP is it surprising the Party is making so little progress?



Tony.

It appears you think it fanciful for me to be suspicious of your website possibly (note the caveat) being a set-up of MI5, or linked in some way.

I will send you separately at the end of my text an article about Julia Pirie, which will indicate (as a typical example) of why that is entirely possible, or to put another way - not completely implausible.

I am a scientist and I know that nothing is certain (except for humans death and taxes). Everything therefore can only have a probability value given to it. Even some of the most fundamental things known in physics end up as probability values only - when we know enough about them. The whole of quantum mechanics is about probabilities for example.

I can tell you that the probability of there being a file in MI5 headquarters Millbank on you, and me, and everyone who appears on your forum is almost 1.0 (100%).

That MI5 takes a very keen interest in political individuals and parties is well known - and that means everyone, even those in government (although there is not supposed to be surveillance of MPs - there is no doubt discrete investigation all the time). This country is good at it and has been doing it for centuries.

I used to have a friend who was ex-MI5 who spent a lot of his time going around the country keeping people who were in the Communist party under surveillance. Some of those people are now in the present Labour government.

If you think MI5 does NOT keep a close eye on the BNP, or UKIP or the Greens or any other political organisation especially small parties you are naive. MI5 has been recruiting hundreds of new people in the last couple of years just to be able to monitor the Muslim threat alone within the UK. There was an announcement in the newspapers recently from the head of national security in governement that there are something like 10,000 Muslin suspects in Britain currently under surveillance. How do you think they keep an eye on these people?

In the case of your forum.....
Let us make a few hypothetical extrapolations just for the fun of it to test the credibility some of these hypotheses, and ask is it likely; just credible?; just possible? or just plain unlikely.

Suppose I was an MI5 controller in the political section, UK; and I wanted to keep tabs on UKIP activists. How best to do it?

First and foremost one needs membership lists. (NO problem - lots of ways to obtain them). Having obtained them, second, how to keep and eye on the attitudes of activists?
.... well you could set-up a website now we are into modern information technology, specifically dealing with UKIP issues - and monitor it for the activity. Anyone who says "I believe it is time to blow up parliament" - Bingo! you have someone to look more carefully at don't you?

Now GLW used to do this kind of work for MI5 in the 'old' days before the internet - How?

By putting adverts into magazines like 'Combat Magazine' with offers for weapons and suchlike. Then all he had to do was filter the results and put any suspicious characters under surveillance. Simple. Standard fishing exercise. They no doubt do that now with Muslin organisations/publications/internet activity.

Now what is the probability your site is like this? What is the possibility it was set-up deliberately to do this? - that will have a prob. value.

What about the possibility of being approached later for information feed to MI5? (personal information and real-time current logging data etc).. higher probability again than first. This is normal procedure, for example: All of the large newspapers have links through specific journalists with the newspaper monitoring its content.

What about being part of some external network other than MI5 for political surveillance? - another prob. value.... higher than most of the above.

What is the probability it is just a simple wenbsite set-up by a computer buff after leaving UNi to make a bob or two ..higher probability yet again than any above......

....... but that does not eliminate any of the above!

Now do you think I am so daft as to not consider these things? Particularly in view of the sustained anti-UKIP stance of this site over some years, with little pro-UKIP encouragement from the site owner?

What do I think the probability values are? ... not telling.


And THEN there is infiltration ....... a much bigger ball game altogether with a new set of parameters to consider....

If you think I am fantasising, read this obituary from the Telegraph recently (29 the Oct):-
(sent separately):
or here is a link:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obit...lia-Pirie.html

Regards,
Douglas.

Disappointed in British Democracy Forum's Anthony Butcher

This site has been a keen follower and supporter of Anthony Butcher's British Democracy Forum until now. We are hugely disappointed at the number of threads he is closing down, claiming personal attacks ??????? Anthony, over the past 2 years, your site has been made up of nothing but personal attacks.

Our concern is that to date you have allowed personal attacks on decent members of UKIP by what some regard as the 'ruling cabal', but as soon as someone retaliates i.e. a certain GL-W, you close the thread. This is most unusual and suspicious to say the least.

Conspiracy theorists may ask whether you are a secret supporter of the UKIP Leadership, whilst pretending not to be. We at Political Gossip UK believe you should have the courage of your convictions and state whether you are or are not. Either way, an honest approach is better than an apparent duplicitous one.

Of increasing concern is one of your recent posts:


Quote:
Originally Posted by T.N.Warry
IMO Butcher's response of sticking with the status quo is lacking in imagination and seems to accept leaving corruption alone is OK for a quiet life. Well I say coruption of any kind must be fought regardless of the consequences to UKIP. Fortunately I believe the best result for UK plc is if UKIP under Nigel do very badly. This way we may just get something better developing in its place.

Even from a critic's point of view, Farage has to be allowed to stand in the EU elections as UKIP leader. This is his grand plan - to double the number of UKIP MEPs (to 18 or 24, it isn't clear). If and when UKIP fails, and perhaps ends up with just three or four MEPs, then Farage will lose all credibility as a leader and will have to step aside for someone completely fresh to take over.. and that means someone who isn't in his trusted circle... which means someone who doesn't hold any position in the leadership at the moment.We can argue on this forum forever about his faults, but political leaders stand and fall on election results.

No one expected UKIP to do well in the General Election or the local elections, but the EU elections are a completely different matter. Farage has been given far more leniency by the party than most other party leaders would ever have had, but he has one big chance to prove himself.

It is far too late for a new leader to have any chance of making an impact on the party now in time for the elections.So if you are a UKIP member I would urge you to stop plotting to oust him and let him get on with it for the moment. That doesn't mean that his leadership decisions shouldn't be criticised - that is only healthy - but attacks for the sake of attacks won't achieve anything. If you think that he is doomed to fail anyway, then don't provide him with more excuses to try to worm his way out of it afterwards.

You and a few others will probably be out of the party soon anyway, so this is probably a pointless post!

Well, we do not agree. If someone has cancer, you cut it out. If someone is robbing you, you don't just sit back and say well lets see where it ends? This is very weak Anthony and we are surprised.

Why are so many UKIP British Democracy Forum Members so nasty to one another?

Yesterday, we had a discussion at our offices to try and understand why certain members of the British Democracy Forum are so nasty to each other - especially those members of UKIP.

We researched many postings and found the main culprits to be, Mark Croucher, Bob FM, Michael McGough, Douglas Denny and Junius. On searching the archives further back, other names such as 'Devil's Kitchen', Chad Noble, Bellatrix etc also appear.

We find this most curious. Rather than debate the issues, these individuals appear (to us at least) to continuously attack those who oppose the UKIP leadership or questions their actions.

Loyalty guys is fair enough and should be applauded, but there really is no substitute for sound argument and debate.

We suggest, that if it is truly your intention to have UKIP treated seriously as a 'grown up' political party, then cut the abuse, and debate rationally.

GL-W allowed back on to the Democracy Forum

We are pleased to see that GL-W has been allowed to post on the British Democracy Forum after a 12+ month suspension. The poll conducted showed that 27 members supported his return as opposed to 19 against.

Rather amusingly Anthony Butcher, the Forum owner, admitted that GL-W could have posted anyway as the site had failed to block him - a technical hiccup. How kind it was of GL-W not to take advantage of this situation.

In view of the overwhelming support for GL-W one cannot help but ask the Question should he also stand for the 'UKIP Leadership' in 2010? - if so, he should get his Party membership application form in now so as to give him plenty of time to overcome any objections that may arise. After all, he would be a stark contrast to the traditional 'blazer and brogues brigaide'.